Things That Don’t Go Away – STAR WARS: The Love and Hate Relationship Strikes Back
Column | BSCreview Guest | March 28, 2009 at 4:15 am
I went into this week firmly intending to write a Star Wars column.
I have started it about three different times.
I wanted to be…polite. I wanted to be upbeat. In the end, I couldn’t make it work, and I had to be honest.
My relationship with Star Wars goes way back. I mean waaaay back. I was ten years old in 1977. My family was visiting friends in Park Forest Illinois, and we needed something we could all do. My father, who was a science fiction fan, wanted to go see this new movie that had just come out. So, we went.
I loved movies. I already loved science fiction and fantasy. I had absolutely no idea what I was in for. Of course, neither did anybody else. It is no exaggeration that nothing like Star Wars had ever been seen before.
There is an ethereal quality that a director or producer has to have if they’re to make a great SF or Fantasy film. They have to “get it.” They can have all the technical tricks in the universe up their sleeves, but if they don’t “get it,” the movie will be hollow. It won’t please true fans, and it won’t reach anybody else.
That original Star Wars film (which these days we must call Star Wars: A New Hope) demonstrated that George Lucas and team got it. He both understood and respected that what he had, a good clear story, a wonderful setting, characters who were heroic and at the same time accessible. It was only after this that he painted on the visual Wow with a broad brush. I remember my father walking out of that film saying it was the first time that space bar scene had been done properly, and he was right. That scene had been written in a hundred SF novels but no one had ever brought it to the screen. In part, because no one before Lucas had had the tech available, but in part because before Lucas, nobody else in Hollywood really got it.
Then there were those two robots. One of them didn’t even TALK and it was practically the best character in the film. And there was Princess Leia. Leia was a revelation. Like Han, she shot first. She was in a ship full of soldiers, and she was the one who got the message out. She stood up to torture. She stood up to the wise-ass pirate. She was rescued, and then turned around to rescue her rescuers. Repeatedly. And if she had to wear a brass bra to stay alive, she also throttled the critter that made her do it.
The movie wasn’t a hit all at once. It built relatively slowly, but by the time The Revenge of…’scuse me The Return of the Jedi came out, it was the gossip of the school cafeteria (the change in titles made it into the newspaper), and I was writing fan fic set in the Star Wars universe (I didn’t have a name for what I was doing at the time, and I sure as heck wasn’t showing it to anybody, but that’s what was going on). I may be the only person in the world who will publicly admit to liking the Ewoks.
I saw all three movies multiple times (and this was back in the day when the only way to see something was in the theater). I bought all the books (there were four) and read them until they fell apart. I was in love. I was a squeeing fan girl as bad as any Twilighter. As I aged, the relationship mellowed, but it endured.
When I heard about The Phantom Menace, I was over the moon. Yes! Finally! The beginning! Oooo, daring! It’s going to be the origin story for Darth Vader. Neat-o! Can’t wait.
I went to The Phantom Menace on its opening weekend, ready to fall in love all over again. With my husband beside me instead of my father, I was the Geek Girl personified. I actually got into a discussion of the parallels between the idea of the Force and certain aspects of Hindu philosophy with two students while standing in line. When the opening text scrolled across the screen and the music swelled, I was 10 years old again. My heart soared.
Then the movie started, and the movie played, and the movie ended, and I walked out and I was angry. Not just a little angry either. I was Harlan-Ellison-with-a-toothache-angry. I was in fact fucking furious.
THIS was what Jedi were? Obi Wan Kenobi who was so strong he could sacrifice himself to save Luke Skywalker and rise up stronger than before could have a woman say to him, “Hi! I’m the Virgin Mary.” And his response is: “Oh. Tough luck about the slavery thing. Where’s the kid?” The JEDI, the ultimate good guys were permitted to lie, steal, and slaughter because all these activities can apparently be conducted with detached equanimity, but they’re afraid of love because love might get you angry?!! LIKE HAVING YOUR RESCUERS LEAVE YOUR MOTHER IN SLAVERY WOULDN’T?
THIS was YODA? This irrational green creature saying an EIGHT YEAR OLD BOY was too old to begin training? WHEN in God’s name were Jedi SUPPOSED to begin the training? Snatched out of their cradles so they couldn’t possibly begin to love their mothers?
Instead of Leia and her adult relationships with Han (and Luke) we get a vaguely creepy precursor of a coming romance between an 8 year old and a 15 year old.
Instead of an energy field that anybody, even a pirate, can have a plug into we have a really incomprehensible somehow intelligent alien virus living inside human beings and capable of creating a virgin birth.
Instead of Chewie, we were given Jar-Jar Binks. Instead of Darth Vader and Grand Moff Tarkin we had this silent pseudo ninja thing. And some how, somewhere, in what was a 20 year span, evidently R2D2 and C3PO had forgotten who they were and where they were from.
And then there was the wunderkind Anakin. Luke was just a hotshot pilot with a guardian angel. Anakin was…an underage polymath genius. He was Wesley from Star Trek Next Generation, only whinier.
I went home, and I raged. I called friends and raged. I went online, and I raged.
Was I over-reacting? Of course I was! It’s just a movie for heaven’s sake and I was blowing my stack.
But here’s one of the things about being a writer. Any fan knows how stories become important. You enter into a relationship with the characters and the world that becomes a real friendship. But as a writer, you also enter into a relationship with the concept of story itself. A good story can make you not only happy, but deliriously so. You will rave about it, you will force people in bars to read a good sentence (yes I have, and miraculously they did it. Admittedly it was at an SF convention which is a place where people are not too weirded out by such things). You will dissect it and analyze it and devour it and adore it.
But a bad story will make you angry. Really angry. Really, ridiculously, over-the-top angry. And here was a story I was watching as both fan and writer. I went in trusting absolutely to Lucas’s ability to start with a good story, and Lucas absolutely blew it. He committed the classic Hollywood mistake of having gorgeous visuals and no plot whatsoever. He committed the sin of space opera by trying to explain far too much of the wrong things.
And I broke it off, right there. For good. Me and Star Wars, we were finished. Attack of the Clones opened, and I didn’t go. I hung around while my friends went, and I asked them how’d it look, and was it seeing anybody else? Did it want to get back together maybe?. But I didn’t get much past mushrooms growing on a desert planet. My love had changed for good. There was no going back. There was no going.
No, I haven’t seen Revenge of the Sith either. We’re not going to make up. It’s too late.
And yet, and yet…today in the bookstore, I saw a new Star Wars novel, with Luke on the cover, and I grinned. I see the kids playing with their action figures and I grin. I love the existence of Wookiepedia. Some part of me is inordinately pleased with the existence of a light saber applet for the iPhone and that the language and imagery has entered, apparently inextricably into the pop culture. Okay, we had our differences, and we’ve grown apart, but it turns out we can still be friends.
One thing though…
HAN SHOT FIRST.
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Related Entries Tags: Sarah Zettel, Science Fiction, Star Wars, Things that Don't Go Away
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Sarah, I’m not so sure that this movie (New Hope) wasn’t an initial success. It’s considered one of the first true blockbusters and tore records down. If I’m not mistaken it was the highest grossing film of 1977 and later became the highest grossing film of all time (later to be eclipsed, though I don’t believe that takes into account with inflation). In many ways this franchise established the idea of a break way hit.
Regarding the prequel, I have a very odd conflict with. Initially I left them and despised them, thinking that they were without doubt the biggest disappointments in my movie washing history, and among the worst films i’d ever seen.
As years go by, however, I sit and rewatch these things and I wonder if Lucas has done it again, had he (re)established a base for yet another generation. I know kids here that love Star Wars, and were definitely hooked by – and prefer – the prequels and thing the originals are a bit of a let down. Did he pull of a another big idea, pulp, extravaganza.
I didn’t watch New Hope when it came out (wasn’t born), but I did watch the other two around their releases and while we can sit back and talk about the peripherals of why we liked the movies, a part of me has to admit that it was the visuals that hooked me. Spaceships, (as you say) the alien bar, Laser swords, magic, etc, etc and I wonder what I would feel like if I was an 8 year old and watching The Phantom Menace. If nothing else, visually these movies were incredible. Sure, the adult in me couldn’t reconcile what seemed to be wooden acting and horrible dialogue, but would the kid in me care one bit?
While it might be making excuses I look at it like this. My parents don’t give two shits about Star Wars (indeed they think it’s pretty stupid and silly overall), even as they watched it when I fell in love with them. Could we have something the same, and call it a success?
“Snatched out of their cradles so they couldn’t possibly begin to love their mothers?”
Actually, yes. Exactly why.
The perspective of the Jedi was one of the few facets of the film I found to be sensible. For the Empire as we knew it to have taken over, the republic before and to fall. Must empires tend to fall from within, and it was the pride of the Jedi and their inability to evolve that played a huge part in the demise of the republic.
Also regarding Obi-Wan. Even via the original movies, we see a guy that is not at all completely altruistic (same with Yoda). These two guys had a plan, were at the very least deceitful, and on a fundamental level were trying to reestablish their own dynasty.
I do agree that there are basic aspects that are just completely ridiculous (the mother). You use the Jedi xoffers and move her into a place of retirement/luxury – if only to appease the reckless, all-powerful, damn, CHOSEN ONE in that little way. It seems like common sense, and something easily done. Anakin WANTED to be a Jedi, and left his mother. This whole saga changes if she’s chilling somewhere in safety, giving him the most basic peace of mind.
“He committed the classic Hollywood mistake of having gorgeous visuals and no plot whatsoever”
Actually, I think the prequels have more of a plot than the majority of the original trilogy. Let’s face it, A New Hope (or Star Wars if you’re the type of person who can’t stomach a bit of revision for some reason), isn’t much more than a bit of a fairy tale mixed with a heavy dose of swashbuckling. Sure, “rescue the princess” is a plot, and there’s no doubt the cast clicked (although I have to cringe at Carrie Fisher’s erratic accent), but I don’t think A New Hope does much in the way of in-depth storytelling.
The Phantom Menace, on the other hand, spends a not so small amount of time focused on the machinations of corrupted bureaucratic institutions, political scheming, and yes, first-hand examples of why the Jedi Order is certainly (and purposefully) not depicted as the band of superheroes that many viewers apparently wanted to see. And while the performances may not have matched Ford and company (although Portman’s delivery of “I hope not” to Jar Jar of all people positively puts to shame Fisher’s reaction of her home planet being destroyed by the Death Star), I give credit to The Phantom Menace (and the prequels at large) for attempting a story that in many ways resembled more of a deconstruction than a bouncy space adventure where the heroes get together for a round of back-patting at the end.
Indeed, I find it hard to believe that a film that has “no plot whatsoever” can have such well-crafted subplots such as Palpatine’s legal rise to power. And you want subtext? (well, I do, at least) During the big “celebration” scene at the end of The Phantom Menace, the children’s choir is singing the same basic tune of the Emperor’s theme from Return of the Jedi. Marvelous.
I’ve said it before. I think the prequel trilogy is the most subversive set of mainstream, action-orientated PG films ever to see release.
- Zach
Yeah, PHANTOM MENACE was dreadful and disappointing. But hey–I (we) got so ticked off, it sparked ideas that turned into four novels for me, so I’m not complaining too loudly!
Jay: You’re right. There’s no accounting for where or how that”sense of wonder” will hit you, but once it does, the story, in whatever format, is going to be a great story for you. And clearly, for a lot of people the prequels are great stories. They are certainly visually stunning. Not going to argue that at all.
It is an extremely difficult thing to recapture for an ongoing series. Especially when the sequels or prequels are coming out 20 or more years after the original. Look at the latest Indiana Jones for instance…on the other hand, don’t.
Zach: You’re right. A New Hope doesn’t do much in the way of in depth story telling. Doesn’t even attempt it, and that’s one of the reasons the thing works (BTW, you’re also right about Fisher’s performance. Great character, not the best actress. Woman’s a much better writer).
The plot of A New Hope is like a piece of Shaker made furniture, it’s simple, it’s got absolutely clean lines, and there’s nothing there that does not have to be. Every single point introduced into the plot is followed up on. No wasted motions, no excesses. The effects and settings are tightly integrated into the story and are at the service of the plot.
In Phantom Menace, Lucas threw in everything but the kitchen sink, starting with the archetypes. Yes, Luke’s the Hero with A Thousand Faces, but Anakin is both Moses (going to set his people free) and Jesus (Virgin birth), and the bad guy’s Hitler (and I’m sorry, I was not at all impressed with the Palpatine storyline. It was Hitler’s legal rise, only simplified and conducted largely off-stage). So, my head’s reeling from all these massive, heavily-contextualized (and really obvious) archetypes, and I’m trying to follow dialogue about trade pacts between places I don’t know, involving people I’ve never met and things I have no reason to care about. I’ve got no setting, I’ve got no context, and pretty soon, I’ve got no interest.
Further, we have this slavery issue, which is sort of tossed in there. Anakin and his mother are supposedly slaves, but they live independently in a nice house, Anakin’s apparently got no work we see, neither does his mother. We never see their master, we never see the planation, or whatever it is they’re enslaved to, and this enslaved kid seems to have the freedom and access to materials to create his own robots and transportation. It made no sense whatsoever. It’s complicating and it’s poorly thought out, and serves only as an excuse for leaving the Mom behind in circumstances that can become distressing later, while, in the meantime, we take a long, strange underwater voyage.
Speaking of context, here’s where the real problem with the prequel sets in. Writing prequels is hard. You’ve got a paradox to work with. You’ve got to use the prequel to set up the “original,” and yet you’ve got to make the prequel make sense in the context of what was created in the original, otherwise your series falls apart, especially these days when movies don’t vanish after the theater release.
Jay hit it. People who got the magic of the prequel don’t like the Eps. 4, 5, and 6, and people like me who got the magic in 4,5 and 6 don’t like the prequels, because the context for the major players was COMPLETELY reversed. If you look hard and do some rationalizing, you can get ulterior motives out of Ben Kenobi and Yoda. BUT in the 3 originals, the Jedi are the Good Guys. They are wise and strong. They are guardian angels and sifus. It is important that Luke be able to control himself not because love itself is seen by the Jedi as a danger, but because any anger gets in the way of using the Force for good.
In the prequels, the Jedi are arrogant idiots with no well defined role within the structure of the Republic (I’m serious, what were they and aside from the Jedi council who did they answer to? The military? The diplomatic corps? The Dorsai? I couldn’t figure it out.) whose rigid philosophy helps do them in. It had me going “What the HELL is this?”
I will respect that for many people, the prequels work in and of themselves, but they knit very, very weakly to the originals and because of that, the series as a series and the Star Wars universe as a whole creation falls apart.
I actually found the story of Palpatine to be the most interesting, and I think that was probably the best acted (which doesn’t say a whole lot admittedly).
The force in the prequel was actually undefined (and even skewed considering the limited perspectives) the prequel offer exactly what Ben and Yoda fear in the originals. They saw what Anakin did to children, they know what a Skywalker can do – even one (in Ben’s case) he would call his best friend. Now, obviously during the production of originals this was not known (by the creators themselves), but I think in the process it gives legitimate reasoning why these two would flat out lie to Luke from the beginning. If there was one debacle that seems almost unforgivable it is the explanation of the force via pseudo-SF mean which kind of ran against the fundamentals that both sets of film shared – having no necessity to explain the magic. The decision to take itself seriously for that one moment really hinders the prequels the most, and they could have removed themselves from that single concept – I feel like the films would have been much better received by existing fans.
That rigid society (jedi)is actually well done for me as it clearly (and one thing about Lucas is that he doesn’t suffer subtlety at all!) sets the opposite of what we see in the originals, and what I began to think of as his goal (or his father): The balance of the force. I’m thinking that because I read a lot of the novels, the concept is (seems) more fleshed out to me. Luke’s victory is not just the destruction of the Sith and not turning to the Dark Side, but is also his disregard to that stoic, non-progressive ways of the Jedi of the Republic. His mission was not to return to the old ways of the Jedi (which via the prequel we know doesn’t work). It was to represent and give birth to a New order (he has a wife, a child etc). He turned his back on the Darkside, AND at every turn didn’t listen to Ben or Yoda (he listened to his emotions and feelings)
That said, there are instances in the first films, that as you get older also boggle the mind (the way – the plan itself – the rescue of Jabba’s palace went down etc).
I think if you came away with “The Jedi are arrogant idiots” – that’s good, because that was exactly the point.
Also, regarding the value of the slaves. Watto was a junk dealer and Anakin’s tech ability is well documented and would seem rather useful. He was also a Podracer, and though he doesn’t win, there must be some benefit in that regard.
“there must be some benefit in that regard.”
Ha! You got that right — the benefit is selling oodles of Anakin Podracer video games and related merchandise. The prequels were made to be the biggest merchandising vehicles in movie history.
May the merchandising tie-in be with you!!
“It’s complicating and it’s poorly thought out, and serves only as an excuse for leaving the Mom behind in circumstances that can become distressing later, while, in the meantime, we take a long, strange underwater voyage.”
I don’t think it’s that hard to understand. Anakin is a slave to Watto, and given his usefulness to Watto and the PG nature of the film, the slavery is not portrayed as a living hell. As for leaving the mom behind, that’s the whole point. The Jedi don’t make much of an effort to rescue the mom because, surprise, they don’t want her to come along and be a part of Anakin’s life. If you would’ve watched the next two films, you would’ve realized how important (and intentional) it was to make a point of the Jedi consciously shunning familial attachment. One of my favorite little character interaction moments from all six films comes in Attack of the Clones when Anakin seeks fatherly comfort from Obi-Wan after having horrible dreams about his mother being in peril. Obi-Wan’s response is to brush away Anakin’s worry by claiming that “dreams pass in time.” Great moment to me, and one that nicely ties in with the Obi-Wan from the classic trilogy. After all, it was Obi-Wan’s character in The Empire Strikes Back that rather coldly suggested that Luke will be a failure to everyone unless he becomes an assassin.
As for the underwater voyage, that takes place before Anakin/Shmi come into the plot. Sounds like you have the timeline of the film mixed up a bit. Perhaps you should’ve watched it again before writing your piece.
“(I’m serious, what were they and aside from the Jedi council who did they answer to? The military?”
The Jedi are a monk-like sect charged with keeping the peace in the Republic. They exist within the ruling bureaucracy of the Republic. I thought this was made fairly obvious in The Phantom Menace. In Episodes II and III the relationship between the Jedi and the military is explored.
“People who got the magic of the prequel don’t like the Eps. 4, 5, and 6, and people like me who got the magic in 4,5 and 6 don’t like the prequels,”
Obviously, I don’t fit in with your generalization. I “got the magic” of the originals. Also, I appreciate the prequels for what they offer, which in some cases I think is a deeper, more interesting and relevant plot than what was offered with A New Hope (a well done fairy tale, but a fairy tale at the end of the day) and Return of the Jedi (what I consider the weakest of all six films if I’m looking through my critical eyeglass).
Return of the Jedi is definitely the weakest of the first 3 films, although the whole rescue of Han from Jabba the Hut was magnificent fun. When Luke’s lightsaber shot out of R2D2, I just about cheered.
One should not have to watch all three movies to understand what the hell’s going on, especially when you’re starting at the beginning. You didn’t have to wait until the middle of the Lord of the Rings trilogy to understand what was going on in Ep. 1. Basic idea was simple and quickly followed through, and the ornamentation on the plot comes after the basic idea and main characters are established.
And again, the problem I have with the revelations of the nature of the Jedi is not that they were portrayed ultimately as antagonsists, but that it was a complete change of the context established in the first three films. The story in the prequels is not a continuation of the universe established in the first three, it’s more like a total rewrite that kept some of the character names.
And looking at the prequels as a separate entity… I’ll be blunt. Perhaps I am a shallow lover of fairy tales, but on the long list of reasons I didn’t like them was because I didn’t like any of those new characters. Didn’t like the arrogant stupid Jedi. Didn’t like the polymath kid. Was offended by the alien sidekick (Cripes, even the Ewoks were portrayed with more respect than Jar-Jar’s people and Chewie was a first-rate pilot and engineer). Was actively offended by the portrayal of the only adult female in the film (at least Leia had a backbone). Was confused by the plot, bored by the races and chases (because I didn’t like any of the characters so why would I root for them?). And as confused as I was, I saw the end coming.
After all that, WHY was I supposed to spend another 10 dollars and 3 hours to go see the next one?
I don’t think anyone is speaking to the point of why somebody should or shouldn’t watch another move though I think when one goes into a trilogy there is some understanding, even if not chosen to be followed upon.
That said, I’d say that the LOTR comparison is not a proper one. It’s more comparable if we offer the what if of movies being made of the 2nd age of Middle Earth 10 years from now. I’d say no the worlds could be completely different, even contrary as we know in our OWN world that just because institutions may carry the same name, they are hardly the same entities.
I don’t see how you can come out of the original trilogy (especially when watching Phantom Menace with adult eyes, and making that perspective the contrast) how the Jedi were the ‘good guys’. Yoda did not want Luke to go save his friends. At that moment Yoda stopped being the benevolent task master – he had an agenda. The defeat of Palpatine and redemption of Vader was never a victory of the Jedi (as we know it), it was a triumph of Luke himself (and through him) Anakin. Note that it was Anakin who killed Palpatine,someone considered not redeemable by both Yoda and Ben. Yet the movie is his namesake – “The Return of the Jedi” – the return of Anakin. THE Jedi – as Ben and Yoda weren’t and never were.
Palpatine’s disdain (how he even says “Jedi” in RotJ” is not completely unfounded. Even with Luke it was the Jedi who deceived. The only liars we meet in the original films are the Jedi. Luke never had to confront either Palpatine or Vader as liars – he had to confront Ben
It’s funny that the rescue at Jabba’s place is one of the points in the original trilogy that most bothers me (in a discussion sense, not truly bothersome in any real sense!). While Jaba was a powerful crime figure, it’s not conceivable that he would not fear what would have to be an absolute military power in the Rebellion, and why they didn’t just bring in a ship of some sort and threaten to bombard his holding from orbit – instead of a much more indirect and convoluted plan is baffling. Compared to the Empire, obviously the Rebellion was small, but we see the military power they can field when necessary and for them to concoct a plan you’d expect out of some independent group of pirates always struck me as odd – especially when you consider who they put at risk – Leia, and the last (as they knew it) Jedi.
“And again, the problem I have with the revelations of the nature of the Jedi is not that they were portrayed ultimately as antagonsists, but that it was a complete change of the context established in the first three films.”
It’s only a complete change of context if you actually believe the Jedi were always intended to represent the unwavering epitome of Justly Good. I don’t believe this is the case, but then again what you call “looking hard” and “rationalizing” I simply call listening to dialogue. And in terms of that dialogue, I can’t help but think Obi-Wan was a bit of a shady bastard at times throughout the originals.
“After all that, WHY was I supposed to spend another 10 dollars and 3 hours to go see the next one?”
Closure, perhaps? I mean, at the risk of being a bit snide here, you seem like you might need it given that you wrote a “Phantom Menace had no magic” article ten years after the film’s release.
- Zach
I can point to the precise instant wen my interest in later Lucas hit absolute zero.
Toward the beginning of the one with the execrable, inexcusable Jar Jar, there’s a gratuitous scene with Great Big Fish chasing a submarine. It went on and on and on and on and on.
Later, talking about the movie, I asked what that was all about, and the person I was talking to said, “Oh, that’s the amusement park ride.”
Jay: You make an interesting point and I’m going to have to think about it. Off the top of my head, however, I’d have to say my reading of it was Ben’s mistakes (trusting his ability to train Vader, not telling Luke about his father) were personal, not resulting from the philosophy of the Jedi themselves.
I saw Palpatine’s dissing of the Jedi as the usual Evil disdain of Good because Good has a tendancy to look weak to Evil.
Yes, Yoda didn’t want Luke to go to the rescue. And he was right, at least in the short term. Luke walked into the trap prepared for him and screwed the situation up. He lost a hand, nearly got killed, and nearly went over to the dark side and had to be rescued, again, by Leia. If she hadn’t heard him, that would have been it. Maybe Yoda should have gotten the whole picture, but “Always in motion is the future.”
Zach: Wouldn’t have worked. Problem with being me. Bad writing (or what I perceive as bad writing) really does make me furious, and I really do stay that way. I used to have a completionist streak, but somewhere along the line I lost it. But I still love the originals, and that’s not going away either. Which in this Brave New World filled with Star Wars Stuff leaves me a little stuck. And torn.
Neil: Snarf! We said something similar. When we saw the pod-race we said “Ah, this is the video game.”
Jay: I had to think about what you said about the Jabba the Hutt and the rescue in RotJ. And then I went an engaged in that process known as “fan rationale” which is part of the fun of any really good universe.
Here’s my take: You’re right, the rebels were a _military_ power. They currently had a war to fight, and it wasn’t going all that well (he couldn’t be expected to know about the acquisition of secret plans and stuff), so it would be a reasonable assumption, even if he was aware of the part Han played in blowing up the Death Star, that the rebels would accept Han’s loss as a kind of casualty of war, they might not like it, but thems the breaks and we’ve got more important things to do. The part that made no sense was them sending so many of their top people to rescue this one guy. I can see someone with a decent sense of strategy and no sense of personal loyalty missing that one completely.
*”You make an interesting point and I’m going to have to think about it. Off the top of my head, however, I’d have to say my reading of it was Ben’s mistakes (trusting his ability to train Vader, not telling Luke about his father) were personal, not resulting from the philosophy of the Jedi themselves.”*
Well it becomes a problem in separating the two to fit any stance. As pointed out earlier, the Jedi avoid attachment. Telling Luke the man they wanted him to kill was his father would be exactly what they didn’t want. Secondly (and this might be personal POV retcon), Yoda seems very disappointed when he say “tell you he did?” (I’m paraphrasing). Yoda and Ben were fundamentally wrong (as they had been for a long time). It’s an honest reaction, as (Yoda especially) was severely humbled. All his talk about ‘not judging’ were lessons he learned first hand, not to mention Palpatine personally killed Jedi Masters/Council members in about a breath.
*”Yes, Yoda didn’t want Luke to go to the rescue. And he was right, at least in the short term. Luke walked into the trap prepared for him and screwed the situation up. He lost a hand, nearly got killed, and nearly went over to the dark side and had to be rescued, again, by Leia. If she hadn’t heard him, that would have been it.”*
I’m not so sure about that. In fact I think it was the biggest step of Luke’s character. This is where Luke decided he would not be attached to the foolish Jedi Dogma that destroyed the Jedi before. He would follow his feelings, but not be mastered by them (like Vader). Not only that, but it is at this point where Luke senses ‘good’ in Vader. It was Vader’s inability to finish Luke in ESB that put the idea in his head that he could be redeemed. It is the central point of the movie (Note, again – the name of the movie – Return of the Jedi = Anakin”) That the point of the saga essentially becomes restoring balance, about destiny, and it is Anakin’s (not Luke’s) destiny to do so (which he fulfills).
Yoda still didn’t get it at the end. Remember what he tells Luke, “Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor”. He still has the idea that it will be Luke that destroys the Sith. It’s his father, a notion Yoda has hardly ever swallowed well.
I do completely agree. The rescue was absolutely great to watch and I love it, but as I got older (and having an interest in the military in general) it always struck me as odd. It’s still great fun, and a moment/scene that etched int my mind as a good thing! For me though, if it was a friend of mine, I’d just call use my status as a war hero and destroyer of the Death Star (the only reason the alliance still existed), get on my Iphone and call an airstrike. Tell him to thank me later.
Oh, from a _military_ standpoint, the rescue makes no sense whatsoever. Even from a rescue standpoint is suspicious. I mean, what I’d do is go in and find out what Jabba wanted for his wall ornament and pay him off. He’s a business “man,” do business.
And this is the heart of the matter; how much are we willing to overlook for love? Quite a bit, as it turns out, but not everything and different people will overlook different things.
As to the events of ESB, yes, disobeying Yoda was a turning point in Luke’s character (sub-point, Yoda must have known there was a chance it would work. He could have easily stopped Luke by disabling the ship), but it still almost screwed up absolutely everything. It was a hell of a risky move. If Luke had turned, which was a genuine possibility, untrained Leia (and we can talk about that as a flaw in strategy), wouldn’t have stood a chance against the pair of them.
As to who actually destroyed the Sith, man, can you go nuts on the argument here, because, ironically, it was a family affair. Anakin dropped him down the reactor shaft, but if Luke hadn’t gone in there and almost gotten himself fried by the Emporer, Vader never would have turned back. And, of course, without Leia, Luke wouldn’t have survived to go in and risk his neck.
In regards to Luke’s choice to go rescue Han and Leia, I think the whole point is that Yoda still lets Luke go even though he doesn’t personally agree with Luke’s decision. This is in stark contrast to a great mirror scene in Attack of the Clones when Anakin wants to abandon the chase after Dooku in order to go back and retrieve Padme after she’s thrown from the gunship. Obi-Wan threatens him with expulsion from the Jedi Order here, whereas in Empire Strikes Back Yoda realizes that if Luke is become a Jedi he has make his own choices rather than bow down to dogma. Interestingly enough, though, in both cases the Jedi in question get their asses kicked and only manage to survive because of the intervention of others (Leia and Lando in Empire, Yoda in Clones).
About the Han rescue in Jedi, it’s the stretch of any Star Wars film I have the most trouble sitting through. Yeah, it’s kind of cool when Luke pulls off some acrobatics, but looking at the series as a whole I think it was a miscalculation to spend half of the final film involved in what is essentially a side quest. Throw in a Death Star rehash, Leia playing jungle queen, and the complete taming of Han Solo, and to me Senate scenes, underwater voyages, and pod races are looking better and better.
Also, it’s hardly like the prequels were the genesis of Star Wars merchandising. Kids were shooting at imperial walkers on their Atari games long before they were pod-racing on Nintendo or Playstation.
- Zach
Zach: You’re absolutely right, there was plenty of Star Wars merchandizing well before PM. Heck, my brother had a May the Force Be With You t-shirt back in the seventies (and I was jealous). But with and after PM it did reach new heights, and it is symptomatic about what some people thought about the plotting and pacing of the film that some segments felt geared more toward the production of merchandise than toward moving the plot.
And this is a problem with a lot of sequels to successful movies. After the first one’s a hit, the second one tends to be…more self-conscious. It’s got to be all that and the bag of chips, and this seldom makes for a more enjoyable movie.
RtoJ is not a great movie. It’s a good movie. Personally, I’ll never forgive Lucas for not letting it be James Earl Jones in the Darth Vader suit when the helmet finally came off. But it comes back to the question, what will you over look for love? By the time that good movie came around, I loved the characters, and I was willing to go along for the ride and found it a good ride. Not as good as the first two, but good enough And we are in agreement, the Death Star scene was a total rehash.
But PM wasn’t able to make the emotional connection for me, and I was READY to have it happen. I wanted to fall in love all over again. But it failed to connect, and so I failed to overlook the flaws.
PS. I defy anybody to find anything in the 1st three movies as painful as Jar Jar Binks or as show-stoppingly ludicrous as mitchlorins.
“But with and after PM it did reach new heights, and it is symptomatic about what some people thought about the plotting and pacing of the film that some segments felt geared more toward the production of merchandise than toward moving the plot.”
Seems a bit on the cynical side to me. I can’t recall the quote exactly, but I remember Lucas saying in an interview that he put certain things in TPM because he felt this was the only movie in the prequels were he had time to do a few “jazz riffs” as he put it i.e. stuff he simply wanted to put in, well, because he wanted to. I think the pod race is one such thing. Sure, it made a cool video game (as did any number of sequences in the originals). But if you know anything about Lucas, then you know he’s always been a huge racing fan. Combine this with the obvious influence from the Ben-Hur chariot race sequence, and I think Lucas’s influence for the scene becomes obvious. I mean, what’s more likely-that Lucas went out of his way to make sure the toy conspiracy scenes were based off of art and hobbies that have been important to him throughout his life, or simply that he was making scenes based on his influences, scenes which the marketing people thus based their products off of?
“PS. I defy anybody to find anything in the 1st three movies as painful as Jar Jar Binks or as show-stoppingly ludicrous as mitchlorins.”
I never understood the vitriolic backlash against midi-chlorians. They don’t change the fact that the Force is a mystical energy field. They merely affect why certain people can interact with that energy field, while at the same time thematically supporting the greater Star Wars idea of living beings co-existing in an interconnected manner. I’ve heard some people claim the idea is a poor one because it means that “not everyone can be a Jedi.” To that I say: not everyone can be a star athlete, or an artist, or a singer, etc.
As for stuff as “painful” as Jar Jar: a burping frog thing. Leia’s terrible “foul stench” line. Goofy mouse droids. A big naked dog-ape who walks around going “RRRARAOOOORRRR.” Teddy bears who take down advanced combat troops by throwing rocks. Cantina aliens that are obviously guys wearing plastic masks. A brother and sister making out. A big swamp monster who swallows and spits out a droid who toots like a baby. Leia transitioning from a kick ass leader in A New Hope to a drugged out jungle princess who’s so helpless she needs to be held. A bunch of soldiers in camouflage who bring along a shiny golden droid as part of their covert raiding party. Teddy bears who throw rocks.
Did I mention teddy bears who throw rocks yet?
Star Wars has (among other things), always been a goofy space opera.
- Zach
Zach,
There is a thematic aspect about the return to Tatooine that I enjoyed. Admittedly it had nothing to do with when it was actually shot or even existed as a concept, but I after the prequels, the idea that Luke went back home – a master of his emotions – to a planet where Vader never did, really spoke to me.
I’m sure you follow the EU discussions, but the idea that Vader never goes down to the planet in New Hope (and yet we seem him take the front line in just about any opportunity, including ESB with) Hoth always offers another comparison of father and son for me.
Great post. I am also pissed off. I don’t like the way they have renamed the old movies and added all sorts of scenes that were not in them the first time around. Revisionist history – I disapprove!
The worst thing about Phantom Menace is the depressing looming knowledge that all the Jedis will die, Anakin turns to Darth Vader, and the government fails. Bah! I don’t want to see this $h!t. If I wanted depressing I would watch the news.
I can understand that, Jay, you make a very good point. For me, though, I think I’d embrace the return to Tatooine stuff if it was done a bit differently than a straight-up rescue thing. For instance, I think they considered filming a scene where Luke returns to Obi-Wan’s home to build his new lightsaber before all the Jabba stuff begins (a scene that later made it into the EU, I believe). This would’ve been a nice, more quiet brand of character building reminiscent of the first half of A New Hope. Granted, I can understand the thought that there wasn’t much time for exposition over action in what was to be the final film, not to mention that I’m sure the producers didn’t want to “spoil” the scene of R2 launching the saber. But still, I think there’s something about that lived-in, rustic quietness that made the first half of ANH work so well. Too bad the sequel trilogy didn’t happen. Then we might’ve had an entire film about Luke having to go back to face his demons on Tatooine, followed by a closing trilogy that didn’t resort to Death Star II and all that just for the sake of convenience (although I admit I do think the Return of the Jedi space battle has aged remarkably well).
- Zach
The ROTJ Space battle will always be classic to me. I remember as a kid not knowing who Nien Nunb was, but I just knew he had to be a bassass if this was the guy Lando picked to co-pilot the Falcon with him in what was really was a suicide mission.
Back to the Jabba scene, a part of me always correlated Luke’s entry into the Palace like one prolonged Western scene. Admittedly it could have just been the environment itself. I have always loved that Jabba recognized what Luke was and was trying to do (mind trick). I also think that if it wasn’t this, they would have had to have shown us Luke’s proficiency/training increase somehow before the final/throne scene.
Speaking of that throne room confrontation. I’m not sure if music had ever been better in any film ever. John Williams put it down there.
What do you think about the live-action tv program?
“Speaking of that throne room confrontation. I’m not sure if music had ever been better in any film ever. John Williams put it down there.”
Yeah, definitely. All the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff is excellent, but that moment where where Luke flips out and starts battering Vader into submission is nothing short of epic. In term of isolated scenes, that’s probably my favorite moment of all the films.
About the live-action show, I’ll have to wait and see. I was really against the idea when word of it broke out a few years back, but then I got to thinking that if I can enjoy certain novels or the Knights of the Old Republic RPGS as much as I do, then why wouldn’t I want to see more live action stuff provided it’s done properly? I think it could be pretty good if Lucas follows through on his idea about the show focusing on the “regular folks” in the universe rather than the ruling class covered in the films. I certainly won’t be expecting Milch levels of television perfection, and probably not even something as good as Battlestar in its best moments, but I could see it being worthwhile in a way that might even attract some people who were dissatisfied with the prequels.
- Zach
- Zach
AH! Grounds for agreement. That scene with Luke hammering on Vader is, indeed, epic. I’ve seen it many, many times and it NEVER fails to get to me.
A live action TV show? Whoa. Hmmm…it could work. Clearly, there’s enough room in the universe for that kind of expansion. It would really totally depend if they could learn the right lessons from the good SF series like, as mentioned, the remake of Battlestar Galactica, or Babylon 5, or the new Dr. Who.
Here’s a thought; the question of the Star Wars episodes is, ironically perhaps, a question of balance.
A New Hope was nothing more or less than a space opera, a beautifully done, but classically light space opera. Empire Strikes Back was a darker film, hitting some heavier themes.
With RotJ, they swung back to pure space opera, and perhaps too far. PM and the rest of the prequels tried to follow up and expand on the weighter themes, and perhaps went to far. So, the question becomes, will a TV show be able to restore balance back to the Plot?
Sarah,
I don’t want to get too much into the sensibility that I think was lost between NH ESB and ROTJ due to the passing of Brackett. I’m not in a position to know how much she influenced ESB, and those who are seem to always wave on exactly what her contribution was, but IMHO – being familiar with Brackett’s other work, sense a lot of her in ESB that was simply not there in RotJ. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that the bulk of her work was written out.
I thought it was announced as an HBO production, which if that is the case it should be interesting. HBO has high production value (not to mention it’s Lucas so it’s going to have tech/cheddar behind it) IMHO and this would be a very unique combination in placing what is probably the biggest franchise of it’s kind in such a network. If it happens, I’m pretty optimistic, and though I’m not sure it will be what people think, but I think that’s probably exactly what it needs. Realistically if this is done with some intelligence it could be the most awesome thing ever and take the franchise even further.
“I thought it was announced as an HBO production, which if that is the case it should be interesting.”
I think that was just speculation. From what I’ve heard Lucasfilm is going to film a season or more to begin with, then shop it around after the fact. I don’t see it going to HBO unless Lucas throws in some topless cantina girls in every episode.
- Zach